Monday, February 25, 2013

Shoptalk: Enabling Abilities


In Scion RAW, there are 24 Abilities listed on the character sheet. Some of these are fine and dandy, they work perfectly. Some have odd and slightly confusing names or descriptions of what they do and do not cover. There are holes in what Scion's RAW Abilities cover. So, in this post, I'll go problem by problem, identifying the issues and offering solutions.

Problem 1: Black Holes
Four of the Abilities (Art, Control, Craft and Science) are broken up into what is essentially an infinite number of Abilities, which becomes extremely annoying for anyone that cares about them and suddenly has to sink dozens of extra XP into their abilities while their friends who aren't interested in Art, Control, Craft or Science only have to deal with the 20 regular Abilities. That's an issue for me. A scientist who wants to know biology and chemistry has to spend a lot more XP than an athlete who wants to be good at both weightlifting and gymnastics.

More than just being an XP penalty to specific types of characters, the difference between a Black Hole and a regular Ability isn't very clear. Why is Academics alright as a single Ability, but not Art? It's somehow easier to learn history, philosophy and literature together than it is to learn painting, drawing and printmaking? Pfft, says I. What about Medicine and Occult, which are easily as broad as Control and Science? Again, pfft.

Solution! Remove this concept from the game. Collapse the Black Holes. Art, Control, Craft and Science become single Abilities, just like Academics, Athletics, Medicine and Occult.

Problem 2: Functional Holes
Scion lacks Abilities that deal with some key topics that can come up frequently. It doesn't have an Ability that clearly deals with lying to people or other forms of deception. A common idea is to use Empathy for such rolls. For me, that does not work. Empathy is also what you use to detect lies and deception. That's like rolling Stealth to avoid notice and to notice people sneaking around. There's no Ability that deals directly with trade, barter, finances or economics. There's also no Ability to deal with using things like computers. It's a toss-up between Craft, for building them and repairing them, or for... I guess Science (Technology) to use them in practical situations? That's really strange.

Solution! Add some new Abilities to cover the largest holes.

  1. Technology to cover the creation, maintenance and use of advanced, modern items such as computers, telephones, TVs, radios, etc. 
  2. Commerce for anything related to trade, finance, money or exchange of goods and services.
  3. Subterfuge will be discussed under Problem 3, but it replaces Politics and exists to be used when deceiving others through lies and trickery.

Problem 3: Fog Ahead!
Some of the RAW Abilities aren't very clear on what they do, or where one Ability ends and another begins. Some examples, you ask! Well, what does Politics do that Larceny, Presence and Empathy don't? Or how about the difference between Command and Presence? Here's a fun one, since it intersects with a Black Hole issue: what's the difference between an Art and a Craft? Where does Woodworking fall? You get the same thing with Craft and Science when it comes to practical Sciences like Technology or Computers. Do you need Craft (Tech) to build a computer, but Science (Tech) to use one? Some of these Foggy Issues can be solved by filling Functional Holes. Others, I prefer to solve more directly.

Solution! Clarify and re-name some of the Abilities. Some of them can keep their names, but have their functions more clearly defined. Others need to be rebranded totally, which essentially amounts to replacing them. Remember, Subterfuge from up in the Functional Holes section?

  • Presence becomes Persuasion and models convincing people to agree with you by 'gentle' means such as logical argument, emotional appeal or charm. It applies equally well to groups or individuals. 
  • Command takes on a slightly refined role and becomes the Ability used to issue orders to groups or individuals and expect their obedience by brute force of personality. You can intimidate people with Command, threaten them into doing what you want or just bark out instructions and expect them to be followed because of course they'll be followed. 
  • Politics is removed and replaced with Subterfuge. Political functions cover a broad variety of skills and can be modelled in different ways. You can use Command, Persuasion, Subterfuge, even Larceny to engage in political maneuvering. Having Politics as its own Ability is akin to having Combat as an ability, it covers too many different ways to achieve the same end.
  • Art is narrowed down to cover the visual and performing arts such as painting, singing, animation, dancing, photography and playing music. The physical varieties of art such as pottery, sculpture, woodworking and jewelry-making are moved into Craft, which is the Ability for 'building stuff'. 
  • Control is narrowed to making use of artificial means of transportation. Animal Ken will cover riding animals while Control takes care of cars, scooters, airplanes, helicopters, space shuttles, motorcycles and other things that go "vroom". In addition to covering how to ride them, it will also cover how to build and repair them. 
All these changes end with a new list of Abilities. There are now 26 Abilities. The new list is: 
  • Academics - knowledge of liberal arts subjects such as philosophy, history, literature, etc.
  • Animal Ken - commanding, training, riding and other forms of dealing with animals
  • Art - mastery of the visual and performing arts
  • Athletics - physical fitness and skill at sports of all kinds
  • Awareness - situational awareness and attention to detail
  • Brawl - unarmed, hand-to-hand combat
  • Command - issuing orders, instructions and threats
  • Commerce - making bargains, conducting trade and dealing with finances
  • Control - use, maintenance and creation of mechanical vehicles
  • Craft - creation of non-technological physical items
  • Empathy - understanding and perceiving the emotions and mental state of others
  • Fortitude - training to endure pain, deprivation and physical discomfort
  • Integrity - mental fortitude and integrity
  • Investigation - determined searches for evidence or information
  • Larceny - illegal and suspect skills like theft, unauthorized entry and blackmail
  • Marksmanship - ranged combat using bows or firearms
  • Medicine - treatment of human and near-human bodily disorders
  • Melee - armed hand-to-hand combat
  • Occult - knowledge of the supernatural and mythological
  • Persuasion - using argument, reason and appeal to sway others
  • Science - mathematics and scientific disciplines such as chemistry, psychology and biology
  • Subterfuge - lies and deception used to mislead others or hide your own feelings
  • Stealth - the ability to pass unnoticed and conceal things or people from the eyes of others
  • Survival - wilderness survival, including hunting and tracking
  • Technology - the creation, use and maintenance of high-tech devices not meant for travel
  • Thrown - ranged combat using improvised projectiles or short-range throwing implements




11 comments:

  1. I actually like this approach way more than I thought I would. One question though: I assume some gods would have Commerce associated (Hermes is the only one that immediately comes to mind, but I'm sure there would be others), but would you give any gods Technology as associated? Even the greatest craft gods never do anything with what we would consider "modern technology". Does that mean Technology would be unique as the one ability that wouldn't be associated for any god besides a PC?

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    1. Very likely, yes, Technology would be something totally unique to modern Scions.

      As for Gods with Commerce, that'd be Hermes certainly, but also pretty much any God associated with wealth, bargains and prosperity could easily have it. Freyr, Ganesha, Lakshmi, Teutates, and Veles may all be candidates.

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  2. Technology? Where do you even draw the line? Alchemy and the four elements would be super advanced technology to how old a lot of gods are. The printing press would be revolutionary to a lot of gods. The entire idea of age of industrialization so many decades ago would nearly Science Fiction to a lot of them.

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    1. The same place you draw the lines between Science, Academics and Occult. You do so based on current understanding, as defined by your group and arbitrated by the Storyteller.

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    2. No thanks. Science, Academics, and Occult cover everything I need in a game.

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    3. That's great. What about the other 21 Abilities in Scion RAW?

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    4. They work fine.

      You don't need Commerce either. You've got Academics and Science already. You don't need Subterfuge either. You've got Empathy and Larceny already.

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    5. Larceny has nothing to do with lying, it controls committing crimes.

      Academics and Science cover Commerce...how? I admit, in some games Commerce won't ever come up, but then in some games Control will never come up either.

      Empathy is about *detecting* lies and *reading* emotions, not actually *lying* and *manipulating* emotions.

      Yes, Scion's 24 Abilities *work* but like everything else in the system, they work *better* with some tweaking.

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  3. "illegal and suspect skills like theft, unauthorized entry and blackmail"

    You said it yourself. Blackmail. What do you think a Charisma or Manipulation + Larceny roll actually does?

    Economics is an actual science. You can take it in college. So is macro economics and micro economics and financial forecasting. All the soft sciences are covered by Academics and all the hard sciences are covered by Science.

    Empathy is about detecting lies and lying. It's in the book. I prefer Larceny for lying anyway but both work.

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    1. Mate, I'm really glad you felt strongly enough to comment. I love comments. But, seriously, if you don't like adding new Abilities to Scion, then don't. Yes, you can play the game with the 24 Abilities given in the book. You can technically play the game exactly as written in the book, if you don't mind the rules falling apart around you.

      Every other WW game line has both Empathy and Subterfuge. For some reason, the developers decided to leave Subterfuge out of Scion. That doesn't work for me because, mostly, rolls are decided based on "yeah, that seems logical" rules. Rolling Empathy to lie does not feel logical to me. Nor does rolling Larceny.

      As part of a considered criminal scheme, sure you can use Larceny to blackmail people. That's different from just *lying*. That requires special skill and contingency consideration. In fact, sometimes you don't need to lie at all to blackmail someone. You just threaten to tell other people things your victim doesn't want known. That isn't actually lying.

      Commerce is the most debatable of the Abilities I propose to add because for many people the issue of finance and trade never comes up in Scion. I feel it has a legitimate place in the game, so I propose adding it as an Ability that also covers bargaining and contract-law.

      If you break it down far enough, Science can cover basically everything. Isn't Medicine just another form of Science? If you have Metallurgy, why bother with Blacksmithing?

      In the post, I give specific reasons why I feel these changes need to be made. If they don't work for you, they don't work for you. I specifically covered that Empathy isn't a good replacement for Subterfuge and that Science/Craft isn't a good replacement for Technology.

      You don't seem that interested in changing your view point, and I've debated these issues quite thoroughly myself with a number of other Storytellers and players.

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  4. I disagree pretty strongly that there aren't enough things to spend XP on in Scion. Just to cover the most vital:Knacks, Epic Attributes, Boons, Virtues. As a side product of the requirement that your Mundane Attribute must equal or surpass your Epic Attribute rating, you also have to invest heavily in those and they're not cheap.

    Abilities are objectively the worst thing to spend XP on. Unless you apply a house rule, you only need a single dot of an Ability to apply your full Epic Attribute success value to a roll using that Attribute. Past Legend 5, your Epic Attribute successes are going to massively outweigh any investment in Abilities.

    On average, each dot of an Epic Attribute provides 4.6 successes and costs 23.5 XP. That works out to an average cost of 5.1 XP per success from Epic Attributes.

    Meanwhile, you have Abilities that average to a cost of 9.3 XP per dot. Each dot gives only 0.5 successes, meaning each success costs you 18.6 XP.

    Just using pure math, Epic Attributes give you 316% the bang for your buck that Abilities do. That's already a HUGE incentive in the system *NOT* to sink XP onto Abilities at all. If you keep making Abilities more granular and expensive, that's just going to drive people even further away from wanting to buy them, ever.

    If you put a gate system into play, like only allowing (Ability) dots of an Epic Attribute to apply on a roll instead of giving all your Epic Attribute's value so long as you have even a single dot of the relevant Ability, that's more of a punishment than an incentive. I'd rather incentivize buying something than punish people for NOT buying something. People look *forward* to spending XP on Epics, Knacks and Boons. There's no excitement in buying the 'boring' mundane traits.

    If you wanted to bring in Specializations, I'd suggest that they replace the idea of granularity. They're a really good way to represent that kind of, well, specialization. I'd go with a system of 1 or 2 XP for a Specialty, with each Specialty adding 1 die when applicable. Limit the number of Specialties that can stack to, say, Legend? That gives an effectively unlimited XP sink *for people that want it*, but with a fairly small impact on the game overall and no real punishment for people that don't want to specialize and prefer spending their XP on more dramatic things.

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